Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-02 | 03:11:21

Is VR really a routeing/sailing strategy game nowadays?

I thought so.

It was more before.

Now it's getting ridiculous.

And no I am not whinning, I am being objective. I can explain what I mean.

A strategy game against an opponent or a multitude of opponents implies that you have an idea of that opponent or an average idea of that multitude. In what concerns THE opponent nothing to say, if we know that he or she is in the race we mark the boat and we develop some tactics together with our general strategy.

And of course, we have a rough idea of what and where is the, let's say middle group , southern group or northern group.

Now, when you are racing you are supposed to know the environment where you are racing... your surroundings. And the idiot part is that in fact, at this stage of the game, you don't know.

Until now I was cool with my strategy, going cool, keeping cool, and then...surprise surprise...they are starting to popp around me like mushrooms.

This is totally idiot, as I said this is supposed to be a strategy and tactical game where people are playing against each other..Now, it's impossible to make any tactic against anyone that you don't see.

And that is totally different from going stealth..If an adversary suddenlly goes stealth you still have ways to control the his/her boat: distance to your boat, twa, tws, twd, bs and your brains, can give you an idea on the move that your adversary made. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. That's a challenge.

Now, not seeing them, really is something VR has to fix, because it's a corruption of the game idea and obective.

We don't need to see boats that we some times see when we zoom out to max zone and arein the back of the race or in the middle. we don't need to see boats just because they have a beautiful yellow ballon on that saying it's a star. We need to see the boats that we are directly racing with OR that are in a given area that we zoom in. The balance between these two things probably don't overcharge that much the resources of the servers, I don't know.

But deffenitely something in this area has to be done or it's ridiculous, to the point in the limit when you are going to cross the finish line and suddenly a boat pops in front of you, without you being able to make a tactical move to win.

Just trying to be constructive, but it's annoying at the same time.


commenticon 26 Comments
Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-02 | 09:34:52
Hi Nuno,

I support your opinion on stealth, VR should match VOR to some extend to make VR more realistic and more fun and challenging to play:
E.g. give everyone three option to use for stealth. so 3x 12h.

It is indeed ridiculous that you cannot see leaders 1 to 5 in the RORC for days. Glad Raketa overtook them.

Pingu RIP hiding for day somewhere up north is too much.

Being able to see your nearest opponents would be great. Say 5 boats before and 5 after. Would also be nice to be able to see your sailing club without wasting the scarse 20 follower options. I would like to follow top 10 VSR to see what the pro's are doing.
So: extend the number of followers to 50 and add an option to see nearest boats
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-02 | 12:16:52
Just have a look at the below link...those were the days...

I remember those nice days, when we could see and "replay" all the fleet of a race...

It was in 2012 on the VG where I performed a nice 128 position.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-02 | 13:15:30
Yes,'s like we are 5 years ahead and gave a step back in some features of the game while technology is constantly developing.

Just in some, because in some others is better and in others is evolving as any product in this area should do. Like the recent change in cards that I think are in the good track giving different choices to players.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-02 | 22:22:11
Grrr. They don't even display your friends/followed boats correctly. The +/- 10 boats is good idea in general. Would let you compare positions with boats all over the course (and I think they were doing something similar before)

Maybe it's time to do it here one more time. I have the old code for the swarm display for boats doing routing requests.

I can also modify the extension to submit the friend list with positions here, then generate a sat view, animations, leg movie and everything (I've also done that before), but I'm not sure I want to do so much of VR's job.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-03 | 00:13:12
Amazing how things seem so simple...
VR team must be all whatching serials or developing zombie games...
A little bit more and we have a barrel in in time of course...and 4 times a day at weather update time :))))
Post by iconPost by Sir_Petrus | 2017-12-03 | 00:51:30
If the unlimited cards include the "ghost" cards we are going to race alone, the ful race.
Nobody insight.
Except me of course. I refuse to use the Ghost card. to be alone I wil play solitair card games!

Fair winds to all
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-12-03 | 05:46:46
Agreed completely. Where is the fun when:
1) you cannot see what you are competing against (too many speed/equipment options, and no visibility in VR of who has which)
2) per nsp's initial comment, you cannot see who you are competing against - not the boats around you; no more than 20 boats to follow; no visibility on boats around your rank in the race
3)they make it almost impossible to sail the race you would like to sail due to the limits on availability of programming
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-03 | 08:00:11
He he Cvetan, in 2012 you finished the VG in 76j 22h 49' 0" ranking 305 !!! not so bad ...

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-03 | 12:19:57
@nsp I wrote the first browser extension back in 2011 for the UG VOR version. Because the extension can do almost anything I used that power to copy the boat and friend data to my server database. This allowed me to some interesting things:

- Have blue dots with popup info for your friends appear in the chart
- Place little black dots in the isochrone images for every known recent boat position
- generate animated KML file at the end of the race for boats using the router and their friends.

I could do something similar now, but:
- I can reimplement the entire VR user interface, but it will still be a card game
- I will be called a thief for doing someone else's job for free.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-03 | 20:24:21
hi Cvetan,

I'm sure noone wants a VR#2. One is enough and so far has been taking some (too much) time to solve some issues, taking into account that is a product that is in the market being sold for money and not working perfectly. When something has problems it should not be available for sell, but it should be being tested instead.

And I am sure that you all know the bounderies of what you can and cannot do.

So I am completelly confident that whatever you develop is going to be something amazing and impossible to compare to any other thing. No matter it is a more developed tool that fill some gaps that the game don't give us and gave us in the past, and you and all feel that is really "part of the game", or in the limit a totally new game to be developed, duly tested and well deserved in the end, sold. Everyday new shootthem ups hit the market. Just imagine if everyone starting to say you stole my game..ridiculous.

We know that noone is steeling anyone, we all are just wanting to have fun, and making this experience the more realistic, accurate and challenging as possible.

If VR doesn't listen to their costumers and doesn't even care to answer...Their problem.

We as clients, are asking them kindly and in a constructive way, repeatedly, too many times, to correct things that are supposed to be fixed long time ago before we started paying to play. They have been ignoring, so far. It's not for nothing that this thread is adressed to them. We all know they read it. Simply chose to ignore it. It's to be registered somewhere that we know that they read that we asked.

And I don't do it in VR clubhouse for one reason, my last post there doesn't even had an answer, the email on the same subject the same. On other subject, after 5 changes of emails (the first one sending me to FAQ's) that didn't clarify my doubt at all, they sent me an email to rate their service...for quality assessement...

Hopefully they answer or act helping us having a better game. It will help them also at the end of the day.

As the for free thingy part of your text Cvetan, I fully understand specially having in mind that you also have your job so you would be overcharged, and about that as I see ZeZo as a tool that is as necessary as the game itself if you want to fight for a good position, like boats do in real world, I don't see why you don't charge a fee for the access to your tool.

You have all the right to do it, and you deserve it. And I know that you are not going to be greedy. So it's in your hands.

It's like the potato producer and the knife producer, potatoes have to be peeled, right? One sells potatoes, the other sells knives. We eat the fries.


Post by iconPost by Sir_Petrus | 2017-12-03 | 14:44:46
Do you remember 3 years ago, the leg from Abudabi to Sanya, The match race between the french girl an a brasilian?
Sorry but I can't remember their names.
What fun could it be, if they had hidden their boat from each other?

No fun for them and,no fun for us!

As I said before going Ghost, ok but not for more than 3 hours, lets say per day. I believe that should be enought to hide a stratigic turn or movement.

Fair winds

Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-03 | 20:25:50
Syrene du Zephyr if I remember well
Post by iconPost by Pingi RIP | 2017-12-03 | 15:29:31
Pingi RIP will pop up like a mushroom in about 1 hour.

Still in a sandwich between "nicobaiona" and "nsp" and will stay visible for the rest of the game.

Stealth mode is usefull for strategic decisions - but 24h are a long time and you can not deactivate.
I think it should be limited as in real VOR. Three times per LEG and disabled at the last 200NM.

I hope that VR is working on re-activating satellite view and the actual ranking for the complete fleet, the "Club House" is just back, so keep on hoping.

Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-03 | 20:41:27
Pingi you were not the problem. You were using the stealth move.

And I agree the stealth move for 24 hours without being able to be cancelled is ridiculous...I think it's the only feature that we can't cancel in the game...can't understand why.

It would be interesting to be able to have few short periods of stealth available to use, to hide a quick move or to simulate it, like we do in real races when we simulate a tack inducing our adversary to tack first as an example, but more than that is ridiculous. The other day I went stealth without being able to cancel and I was just trying the stupid thing.

As to your solution of 3 periods of stealth per race/leg, you are not alone on that one. I ahve been reading more guys over here saying the same for shorter periods. But totally deactivated in the last 200 miles I disagree. It's too short. In 200 Nm normally you can do too little! Remember last leg of VOR? It was a drag race in the end? Tactics?..nearly ZERO.

And by the way, about mushrooms popping I feel that you don't know and VR doesn't work well, for the sake of healthy competition...near us you can spot too "Cobra Pourpre" and "nauplius", closer than you could think...

Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-03 | 22:19:29
Another idea, everybody has a XX (eg:24, depending the race) hours of steath mode to manage during a race, with a count down counter....
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-03 | 22:22:30
...with some cards to increase THE FINAL COUNT DOWN in order to please M. Ph. Gu. (Super)

Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-04 | 04:46:54
Extraordinary thing, after this thread was opened it was opened another onei in VR Clubhouse in the Clipper section, posted from some well known of us saying that they can't even see their own friends...

No comments!!!...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-04 | 07:52:08
There is another problem too - the followed list is global so if half of your friends don't participate in given race you only get 10 followed boats.
Post by iconPost by Pingi RIP | 2017-12-04 | 09:36:00
I had a dream at last night...

The satellite view was back with new funktions...
When you zoomed into the map you could mark a sektor, click on a button "List marked boats" - all boats appear in a list with all important datas - in the row just between the boat name there was a magical check box called "Add to observe list for this leg"...

Woke up and checked it in the game.... but it was only a dream at a good sleep night.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-12-07 | 23:14:20
Unfortunattelly i just came to have a proof of what i was warning first in my post.

Just minutes ago, and just because I was checking the rankings and clicking on each boat to see where they were I spotted a boat 2 miles away from me, but in a much more strong position. I would even say..impossible to recover in the 250 miles to the finish line.

All the day I was telling people, "no I am not in first nor in second", there are at least 3 more boats here. People just can't see them. And its just a small group in front of the race. (I hope it's small)

So after all we were right. Boats in our vecinity. Boats one position imediatly behind us in ranking. Boats with whom we are supposed to be fighting with...we can't...because we don't see them.

Why? Because VR doesn't show us who are near us.

Thanks very much VR!!!!

Post by iconPost by Sir_Petrus | 2017-12-08 | 01:00:13
From now on I will call the hidden sailors, chicken sailor!
They are afraid to battle with an open chest in an open field!
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-11 | 18:46:52
It seems the VR ClubHouse forum is a new time OFF.
I don't know if this is consecutive to some posts regarding the fregate and so on, but it could be....
Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-11 | 18:49:25
it is probably just as buggy as VR itself ;)

or indeed, it is censored because some unwanted content (unwanted for VR, although it is the customer voice)
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-11 | 18:59:24
I'd give 50:50 chance of both reasons too.
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-11 | 20:05:20
What a pity, to not have any clear-sightedness to understand this is not the right way...

M. Super is acting as a stupid dictator thinking it's easier to close the forum than to try to solve the differents "issues"...
This is really stupid and ridiculous !!!
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-12-11 | 20:19:00
Cvetan, it could be that your forum activity increase in the next days...
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