Formula used to calculate the points on the VOR and the Clipper
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 14:15:55

Dear everybody, I started to collect some data from our community and here is the conclusion I got so far. The points you receive is the same number than the credits you got.

For the leg 1&2 of the VOR, they applied the following calculation for the top 50 (maybe top 100)
Points attributed = 1600 * race coefficient / ranking^0.45
And for the leg 3, they applied this new calculation
Points attributed = 1600 * race coefficient / ranking^0.25

The race coefficients are the following:
VSR6 = 1
VSR5 = 2
VSR4 = 3
VSR3 = 4
VSR2 = 5
VSR1 = 6

The same calculation apply to the clipper (leg 2 & 3 : 1600 * race coefficient / ranking^0.45 and leg 4 : 1600 * race coefficient / ranking^0.25)

It is a different calculation for the players arriving after 50 (100?), I would need more data to calculate it.


commenticon 56 Comments
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 14:55:44
And here is the link to excel spreadsheet I have created

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12fXf_a_C9KQAWW0Sj6uDu1pJ1GdklqNki9wcJv0vbSY/edit#gid=1564497598

EDIT : the calculation seems to work for everybody not only for the top 50.



Post by iconPost by UR2L8 | 2017-12-31 | 15:12:11
Hi, could you make it readable for all?

Post by iconPost by UR2L8 | 2017-12-31 | 14:57:13
I was at VSR1 when leg 3 started.
I came in on 14th position.
I was awarded 2481 points

The formula then would be
1800x6/(14^0.25) = 5583

But I only got 2481 points/credits?


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 14:59:43
I think marcus has the race VSR in mind, not the player level.
VOR is VSR4, Clipper is 5

Hmm ... 1600*3/sqrt(sqrt(14)) = 2481.47 exactly.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 15:06:16
Yes that's right. I try to calculate the number of points given for the VOR/clipper. Not the points attributed for the VSR. Maybe I can try later.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 14:57:34
Points and credits are not exactly the same.

The formula may also include the total number of players, you can try correlating for that - Sydney-Hobart reported 68644, VOR - reported 134431

Here are my data points for the last legs:

Big Bird, VSR 14:
VOR
Rank 57, 1331 points, 1747 coins, 350 buy-back credits for 80 cards (70*5)
Clipper (S-H)
Rank 36, 1029 points, 1306 coins, 140 buy-back credits for 28 cards (28*5)

Snuffleupagus, VSR 4:
VOR:
Rank: 962, 766 points, 862 coins, 350 buy-back for 85 cards
Clipper (S-H)
Rank: 512, 609 points, 673 coins, 80 buy-back for 16 cards


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 15:06:19
Funny.

For the Bird the formula with 1600 is correct for points in VOR and coins in Clipper. One is below 50, the other above.


For his friend it's coins both times. Rank above 50.

Edit: Just checked the numbers again. Always coins.
Post by iconPost by DancingDjMike | 2017-12-31 | 15:11:16
Here are some stats from the lower rankings, with one very nice 60th place in VOR3

race - race level - position - VSR-points - credits - own VSR-level
VOR1 - 6 - 9971 - 25 - 25 - 1
MT2 - 5 - 755 - 162 - 162 - 1
TJF - 3 - 1406 - 245 - 245 - 1
C3 - 4 - 960 - 218 - 218 - 1
VOR2 - 4 - 1400 - 184 - 184 - 1
RORC - 4 - 1830 - 702 - 734 - 1
C4 - 5 - 536 - 644 - 665 -2 - 2
VOR3 - 4 - 60 - 1629 - 1725 - 2

This should add up to 3809 VSR points, but VR is only reporting 3786 (support message sent, will be corrected soon ...)

Not closed:
C5 / SH - 379 - 640 - 725 - 4

Seems there is a change in point with RORC, where VSR and credits are not the same anymore and much higher.

edit:
own VSR-level added (to my best knowledge). the VSR level can change when a previous race is closed. I will be VSR6 when SH closes.

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 15:14:56
Any idea about your own VSR level at different times? It seems to affect the points-credits balance for players below 50
Post by iconPost by DancingDjMike | 2017-12-31 | 15:29:48
I have added it as best guess to above post

Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 15:30:10
The calculation seems to work also for the lower ranking according to your data, I will try with my 2nd boat to see what happens.
So you should have 1934 points for the VOR in total at the moment.

Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 15:16:30
Yes that seems to be the amount of coins you receive that are transformed into the points for the VOR /Clipper. I did not try to calculate how to transform coins into VSR points!
I made the calculation for a few players with the amount of points they have on both Clipper and VOR (I got their ranking) and it seems to work, provided you use the different formula for the different races.


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 15:19:25
1800-1600 = 200 ... 200 ponts, first 50 players ... thinking out loud
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 15:24:01
BTW does the link to the spreadsheet works?
Post by iconPost by DancingDjMike | 2017-12-31 | 15:29:15
no, you need permission to access and I made the request.

I think it is better to share with just the link in google drive

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12fXf_a_C9KQAWW0Sj6uDu1pJ1GdklqNki9wcJv0vbSY/edit#gid=1564497598
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 15:36:29
Just changed the settings, everyone should have read/write access now. This is the first time I use google drive... :)

Post by iconPost by DancingDjMike | 2017-12-31 | 15:40:31
I have. you could use the url-shortener at goo.gl.

that gives some more insight on the number of hits. I have more than 750 on the JVT timesheet
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 16:04:36
How do you do that?
Post by iconPost by DancingDjMike | 2017-12-31 | 16:09:50
go to https://goo.gl and paste your url to shorten.
you need to be logged in to your google account.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 16:39:05
Thanks.
Post by iconPost by UR2L8 | 2017-12-31 | 18:25:03
Hi
Sorry if I misunderstand,
but shouldn't the formula be
1600 * race coefficient / ranking^0.25
and not 1800 *...?
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 18:52:27
Oups, that's true, this is 1600, not 1800. Mixed the numbers with the leg 3 giving 4800 points to the winner I guess.
Maybe Cvetan can change that to avoid confusion because I cannot edit the first post.

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 19:17:55
Nobody can edit the first post but the DBA ;-)
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 19:23:14
update forum_posts set text = replace(text,'1800','1600') where post_id = 15921;
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-12-31 | 19:27:46
Great! Thank you ! Time for party now ! Happy new year !

Post by iconPost by Charlie2010 | 2017-12-31 | 18:41:49
It should be 1600 and the spreadsheet actually uses 1600 and not 1800.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-01-01 | 07:01:20
U N B E L I E V A B L E.

We working again because those gentlemean in VR just don't want to answer us....

This is going to end!


Post by iconPost by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2018-01-01 | 07:28:07
gentlemen? They have nothing to do with gentlemen!

Do you still remember this?

"The day you want to enter real business, note one thing at first, stealing is not creating. Stealing is just stealing. Stealing a car is the same as stealing programs, datas (intellectual property). Stealing drives to pay fines or more.

Philippe, founder/owner of Virtual Regatta"

And the not so gentlemanly is ..... Philippe Guigné

______________________________


Messieurs? Ils n'ont rien à voir avec les messieurs!

Tu te souviens encore de ça?

«Le jour où vous voulez entrer dans le vrai business, notez une chose au début, voler ne crée pas, voler, c'est voler, voler des voitures, c'est voler des programmes, des données (propriété intellectuelle), voler des amendes ou plus.

Philippe, fondateur / propriétaire de Virtual Regatta "

Et le pas si gentil est ..... Philippe Guigné
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-03 | 23:58:56
Hi everybody,

First, a huge thanks to Cvetan for the tremendous help he brings to all of us with the tools, and the "sharing area" of this forum.

As a follow up to Marcus findings for the credits calculation, i have had a look to the way to go from credits to VSR points for a race.

At this stage, and based on the data i can see in this topic + my own races results + some others, my assumption would be that the difference between the credits and the points you win in a race is only linked to the Race Coefficient (from 6 to 1), and to the Sailor VSR Level (from 1 to 14). So for a given VSR Level (let's say 14), and a given Coefficient (let's say 5) you will have always the same gap between credits and points (277 with our example Level 14 / Coef 5).
As an example, in the Sydney Hobart which was a Level 5 (max credit 1600*2 = 3200), Your Mom SA with his 3rd place has win 3200/3^0,25 = 2431 credits, and 2431 - 277 = 2154 points (which we can check now in the WW ranking).

If we come to the formulas, for each Race Coefficient, we have a fixed "Decrease Factor" (32 for Coef 4 and 21.333 for Coef 5), and we have NbrPoints = NbrCredits - DecreaseFactor * (SailorVSRLevel - 1).

For example, if we take the second boat of Cvetan (VSR Level 4) :
- in the VOR (Coef 4), we have 862-766 = 96 = 32*(4-1)
- in the S-H (Coef 5), we have 673-609 = 64 = 21.333*(4-1)

To date, we have only data for race coefficient 4 and 5 with the new calculation algorithm which in place since the RORC, so we must wait to define the "Decrease Factor" for the other race coefficients (1, 2, 3, 6). What we can notice nevertheless, is that the proportion between the DF for Coef 4 and 5 is 1.5, which is exactly the proportion between the number of free credits we get at the start of the race (1200 for Coef 4 vs 800 for Coef 5). Perhaps we can have a clue based on that ... We will have a better vision when the TJV will end !

Hope it helps !
Fair winds to all of you
Benoit
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 08:39:52
Well done.

Looking at the numbers, 96 and 64 are 32 * k

where k is the multiplier corresponding to the VSR level from the first post

and 21.333 = 32/1.5

And the difference comes from rank below/above 50

Or is it (k-1)? Confusing with just 2 data points indeed, with possible factors 2 and 3. And with changing rules.

Have to look at the numbers again after catching some sleep, but the general idea is clear.

Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-01-04 | 09:58:56
lol.

I always feel amazed when looking (or reading) something from a mathematician (or phisics, chemistry, astrophisics, quantics etc) and how easy it seems.

In my world of letters the maximum I can achieve is solve a problem with a rule of three, a calculator or a spreadsheet. And the last one someone has to create or format it for me. Even navigation I still love to do it with rule and compass and even sextant. Not that for racing and even for leisure I don't use gps and pc or pads and software, still...

Good job guys :)))


Post by iconPost by mjstevens | 2018-01-04 | 16:40:11
I second NSP!

and must also give a special thanks to the handfull of masterminds that have developed the various graphical tools, plug-ins and spreadsheets, prevented a total brain meltdown and failure!

tks ;)

Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-06 | 20:01:15
Not 10O% sure my explanation what very clear ;-)

I've decided to create a simple spreadsheet which do the calculation based on the VSR Level, the race category (coefficient), and the rank.
I have also added a "reverse" calculation of the rank needed to obtain a specified number of credits, or points within a race.

Just have to enter the values in the green cells.

Here is the link to the google sheet (hope I have chosen the good sharing options !) :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UtXGvMWG7ODCAaIJTAqjr__lvTehvgY9hyhb9rYX7vk/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-01-07 | 03:27:03
Hi BGsteMarine,

Amazing work.

But now I confess I am even a bit more confused about the different value of VOR and Clipper legs so far. Eg. How did Sideshow as a winner got only 1600 points in leg 1? Was he a level 1 and the leg a level 6? I am almost certain the level wasn't a level 6.

Maybe someone can confirm this and give some data.





Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-07 | 13:43:36
Hi NSP, he was level 1, so got all the 1600 credits transformed into 1600 VSR points. Then went directly to level 3 I think.
As a reminder, credits are transformed directly into race points for the race ranking (which is normal, no reason why your level would impact the points you get) and there is a additional formula, that BGsteMarine has developped, that changes the credits into the VSR points.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-01-08 | 03:18:21
Thank you Marc. Understood!
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-07 | 23:26:21
Hi nsp, the first clipper leg in the VR (second in the real race) from Punta del Este to Cap Town, was a Category 5 race, but for this race, it was still the "old" calculation system which was in place (far less credits and points).
I have not try to find what was the algorithm for this old system, even if it seems to be based also on a fixed gap between credits and points for a given VSR Level and Race Category.
We will also have to check what's happening for the points calculation when the race make you change one (or two) level up, but we will need more data to clarify that !
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-01-08 | 03:23:32
Hi BGsteMarine,
Thank you,
So Leg 1 from VOR wich was not a level 6 race, was also under the old system?
So we have to reach to the conclusion that this clever people in VR are changing Systems without any I stress ANY kind of information, anywhere?
And even the moderators in Club House don't know it?
And even if asked, they simply ignore the answer?

WOW

Post by iconPost by Le Genevois | 2018-01-19 | 10:01:19
Your Excel table works very well.
I finished 68th in race 6 of the Clipper (grade 5) and I received 965 points and 114 credits (level 8)
I finished 1494th in race 4 of the VOR (grade 4) and I received 388 points and 772 credits (level 13 because he forgot some points they gave me back this week).
Good work because I can now set goals more easily and calculate the rankings of my friends without waiting for the ranking to be updated at the end of each race.
Thank you very much for your work
Good wind

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Le Genevois Jérôme
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-06 | 22:56:57
Hi BGsteMarine, just had a look on your spreadsheet. It is quite nice. Your calculation makes sense. I am just surprised that VR does not take into account the number of players in the calculation.
What we could do to verify the formula is to populate a table with the different data, the ranking VSR, the level of the player, etc. I will update my spreasheet to put some of the data I have seen on this site and then we can put additional data once the VOR and Clipper are finished.
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-07 | 23:44:15
Hi Marcus, yes, I was also surprised that the number doesn't influence the points, but I noticed that quite early in fact, based on my own results :
For the 3rd leg of the Zanzib Cup, I have been ranked 302, and received then 122 credits and 74 points (122-48). For the VOR Prologue, I have finished 318, and received 120 credits and 72 points (120-48 also). So the rank, credits and points allocation was very close, despite the number of players was very different (about 8300 for Zanzib, and 22000 for VOR Prologue). So that guide me to something independent of the players number !
I will be glad to get more data and check the assumptions, but I am quite confident now for race categories 4 and 5.
I'm quite impatient too to be able to see what's happening for other race category and check if the assumption to be proportional to the initial credit allocation is correct or not. Probably we will have to wait for the end of the TJV for that checking, because I presume that all the coming VOR and Clipper legs will be of 4th or 5th category !

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-01-07 | 23:48:34
When you look at the race definition there is no detailed pricing, just a single variable (for the VOR):

"priceLevel": 4

Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-07 | 23:56:57
hum ... that seems in sync with what i call "race category", but we cannot be fully sure at this stage that they apply a linear factor based on that priceLevel to the gap between credits and points, even if they do on the initial credit allocation, and on the price for the sails, winch, foils, etc ...
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-08 | 22:51:22
Just checked your spreadsheet. The last race taken into account is the S-H. It seems that the maximum amount of negative point you can get is -176. A few players level 14 got that amount, probably people that did not finish the race. With your formula, we get that value only if there were 1 000 000 players, which is not right. But VR might give that amount to a player that did not finish a race, to force a player to cross the finish line. It would be interesting to know what was the place of La Semillance when he arrived, he got -17 points, which corresponds to a ranking around 23000, which might be correct since he let his boat floating around for a couple of days. Cannot remember how much boats were part of the race.
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-09 | 00:39:34
Yes ! This seems very likely. And the "1 000 000" sounds good for a maximum theoretical ranking.
For the S-H, a couple of minutes after my arrival, the number of skippers in the world ranking was 37 570, so very compatible with the 23 000 for La Semillance.

BTW, I have added some data points in your spreadsheet, from my own results.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-01-13 | 21:14:16
To add another data point (confirming the current observations)

I just got 2*1600*fourth_root(rank) coins in the Clipper, and 277 less VSR points (with TOP VSR rank)

And 250 (capped) buy-back points for 61 cards
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-17 | 01:15:18
Yes ! Same confirmation for me in the clipper (with Light sails) : Level 12, rank 803, 601 coins and 366 VSR credits.

@Marcus, did you get what was expected for your excellent rank 8, ie 1903 coins and 1626 VSR Points ?
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-17 | 19:42:51
@ BgsteMarine, yes this is the amount I got. What would be interesting to is to track the top players which just start a boat without playing really
Post by iconPost by Charlie2010 | 2018-01-18 | 01:11:00
The formula for VOR leg 4 is the same as in leg 3: I got 2771 points for rank 9.
Post by iconPost by Le Genevois | 2018-01-19 | 10:09:43
@BGSteMarine Your Excel spreadsheet works very well.
I finished 68th in race 6 of the Clipper (grade 5) and I received 965 points and 114 credits (rank 8)
I finished 1494th in race 4 of the VOR (grade 4) and I received 388 points and 772 credits (rank 13 because he forgot some points they gave me back this week).
Good work because I can now set goals more easily and calculate the rankings of my friends without waiting for the ranking to be updated at the end of each race.
Thank you very much for your work
Good wind


Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-20 | 15:42:01
Just checked the formula of BGSteMarine for another player. 350th, get 1110 credits and 694 points VSR (level 14). So also working
@ BGSteMarine, I would suggest to post my excel spreadsheet and your's on VR clubhouse if it is fine with you.

Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-20 | 15:52:12
@ Marcus,
Yes sure !
Let's make it useful for as many person as possible.
Thanks.

btw, congratulations for your impressive rank #5 in the last leg of the VOR ! :-)
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-20 | 15:44:02
Thanks Le Genevois
Happy to bring my small contribution to this great community.

We will soon be able to check the rule for grade 6 races, with the closure of Marseille to Cartage trophy.
Post by iconPost by taberly | 2018-01-20 | 20:11:07
Hello all

Your Excel works very well.
I finished 21th in race 4 of the VOR and I received 1858 points and 2242 credits
my rank is 13

a big thank you to Cvetan for his zézo and his forum
and a big thank you to all those who contribute to develop tools that VR does not want to put at our disposal.

Eric

Translated with google ;-)
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-22 | 21:09:49
Hello, I have created a new subject on the VR Clubhouse with the 2 excel spreasheets. Hope the topic will not be removed !!
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-01-22 | 23:16:41
Hopefully not ! ;-)
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