Cards and credits
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-29 | 19:47:45

Individual purchase card price

Help: 15
Meteo: 15
Autosail: 20
Waypoint: 20 (?)
Programmation: 25 (?)
Stealth: 30

At this value I have now 2040 credits from barrel cards

How many will be given after finishline?
I will say you...

If you see any wrong price tell me

commenticon 44 Comments
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-29 | 19:57:35
Edit:

104 cards from barrel and offered credits valid only for this regatta

medium individual card price in random packs: 20.83333
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-29 | 22:32:52
The 2040 credits for unused cards have been returned as 1040 permanent credits given to me after finishing the race.

That's 5,77 random 10 cards packs

51% of original value
Post by iconPost by lemulot79 | 2017-09-29 | 23:31:18
LOL, you did not think VR would pay you 100%
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-29 | 23:54:32
Leg 1 Sails+foils+winch+polish = moreless 3400 credits (from free bonuses and barrel in vro3 time).

Calculated Free Credits for Leg 2

Start Bonus: moreless as per Leg 1 = 800 credits
Barrel: 5 cards * 4.5 times * 10 days = 2250 returned credits after finished Leg 1


Finish bonus in Starting and Zanzibar Races(+-):
5th : 775 credits
32th: 450 credits
62th: 350 credits
77th: 226 credits

Result:

If I save the cards from the barrel and , it is possible but difficult to finance the improvement of the boat for a regatta of the same level.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-09-30 | 00:00:16
AS : 17
HL : 14
PR : 14
SM : 4
WF : 18
WP : 18
Total: 85 cards, 850 credits
plus 135 for 247th place
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-30 | 07:40:10
Inicio: 104 unused cards = 1040 credits
zezo: 85 unused cards = 850 credits

Same 10x proportion for all kind of unused cards.

50% of random packs are useless (15 Help, 15 Meteo, 30 Stealth) and will return as 10x.

50% of Waypoint cards will be unused and returned as 10x.

The average value of a WP card is 15 credits (or less).

The average value of random cards is 15.

100% value is the price of a useful card purchased individually.

A random 10 cards pack cost 180 credits for an average value of 150 credits (83.333% value) of useful cards or returned 10x cards.

A random 10 Navigation cards cost 270 credits for an average value of 200 credits (74% value) of useful PR and WP (50% of WP are unused and returned as 10x cards).

If more WP cards are unused, less average value, and even lower relative % value of the 270 Navigation packs.

If you use the same number of WP and PR, the average value is 15,8333. In this case the 180 random pack will have 88 % value. The 270 Navigation pack will have 83.333% value.

(All of this is value relative to the % of useful cards used. In any case it seems more cost-effective to buy the 180 random packs than the 270 navigation packs.)

Do you think these calculations are correct?
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-30 | 09:54:50
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-09-30 | 11:37:58
Sur leur page FB https://www.facebook.com/virtualregatta/

Meteo Niort Virtual Regatta Page Officielle
Voici un retour d'expérience sur la course test Zanzib 3 que je suis en train de terminer. C'est un peu long, mais il me semble objectif, sans démagogie, et j'espère qu'il vous aidera à construire la suite.

Bien que très peu intéressante sur le plan stratégique, cette course m'a permis de mettre en lumière les grosses faiblesses de ce système de cartes. Au total 86 cartes tirées dont :

- Seulement 18 cartes prog. Pas de quoi éviter de se lever plusieurs fois la nuit, ou aller au travail sereinement. On y perd énormément en confort, et inutile de s'étendre sur l'état de fatigue généré au bout de quelques jours de courses pour celui qui veut bien figurer. Le résultat sera probablement encore moins de courses pour beaucoup de joueurs, et donc moins de chiffre d'affaire généré.

- 15 cartes WP : En principe ce sont des cartes qu'on utilise pour longer des côtes pour éviter de s'échouer. En dehors des côtes, les WP ont peu d'intérêt dans la navigation à voile, car il y a un gros risque de se retrouver hors des TWA efficaces et des VMG. En revanche, les WP sont très utiles pour la navigation au moteur 😀

- 16 cartes voiles auto 24h: Pas mal pour un course de 3 jours où seul le génois léger a été utilisé.

- 26 cartes météo. Totalement inutiles en ce qui me concerne. Je comprends qu'elles puissent être utiles à certains, mais d'autres sites sont bien meilleurs pour faire une analyse, et pour les novices même Zezo.org offre bien plus de possibilités d'analyses, même sur 1 smartphone

- 8 cartes Help : Totalement inutiles. Pour les novices, Zezo.org est bien plus efficace.

- 3 modes furtifs : cartes utiles lors de choix stratégiques pour ne pas être suivi, mais pas sur cette course

C'est simple, plus vous générerez d'inconfort, plus les joueurs prendront de la distance. Plus vous ajouterez de difficultés, moins vous générerez de l'appétence.

Je crois que si vous voulez que les joueurs consomment, il va falloir leur donner de la visibilité, de la maîtrise de leur budget, et du confort. Lorsqu'on s'est fait avoir 1 fois en cliquant sur le pack navigation, on évite d'y retourner une 2ème fois... Et lorsqu'on se lève 2 à 4 fois la nuit, tout simplement parce que les progs sont devenues inaccessibles, naturellement on lève le pied. Les jours où l'on faisait 2 ou 3 courses simultanées paraissent bien loin derrière nous, tout simplement par la perte simultanée de confort et de la maîtrise du budget ...

La possibilité de choisir l'achat de cartes prog et voiles auto, et de les utiliser à un prix raisonnable, sont certainement les clés d'un chiffre d'affaire plus important.
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-09-30 | 15:16:54
D'accord.
100%!
Post by iconPost by Peperazzi | 2017-09-30 | 17:51:53
Ce matin pour la Mini j'ai pris le pack navigation " l'avantageux avant course "; je pensais bêtement que j'avais la programmation. Rien du tout, après il faut encore acheter des cartes et pas sûr d'avoir les bonnes.
Sur la 2ème manche de Zanzib', j'ai placé des WP " offerts " et je les ai modifiés peu de temps après en toute confiance. Le lendemain matin le bateau n'avait pas changé de direction !!!
Mon sentiment c'est que la version précédente était nettement supérieure et que ce jeu est devenu une " pompe à fric ".
Ce système de cartes ne me parait pas approprié à ce jeu.
Je trouve l'analyse de Meteo79niort très détaillée et très juste.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-01 | 10:20:00
OK pour le pack navigation, mais pour les 3 packs de hasard, si personne ne leur achète, peut-être qu'ils reverront leur politique. Ce qui est sûr, c'est que lorsque tu as cliqué 1 fois, tu n'as pas envie de recommencer :)
Post by iconPost by etrille17 | 2017-09-30 | 19:04:01
Trés bonne analyse de meteo79niort.Toutà fait d'accord.J'ai eu aussi un pb avec les Waypoint.Mon bateau est resté en rade apres avoir pris la bonne direction.
Post by iconPost by nostro | 2017-10-01 | 15:53:16
idem avec wp
Post by iconPost by smaugh | 2017-10-12 | 08:55:08
Hi guys

you were speaking about 10 credits per unused card, but I got 740 credits for 148 cards from barrel, after mini transat???

5 credits per card ?!

+ 226 credits for finishing on 362 place

Was I robbed by VR pirates?
Post by iconPost by turb | 2017-10-12 | 10:59:34
Hello,

No, the same for me : 5 credits/card (for Mini Transat and VOR).
They should have change the ratio.
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-10-12 | 13:39:46
In the 4 training regattas with the new system, you were returned 10 credits per unused card, now you only get 5 credits back. That is, less than 25% of the average original price of an individual card, which is 20.83 credits (18 credits if you buy the random packet of 10, or 27 credits if you buy the random navigation package).

It's a bit, or rather, 75% lie, VR claim that they are repurchased unused cards ...
If you add that 80% of the cards that you give, or that you buy, are useless, this system generates enough frustration in the customer.

Because Help, Meteo, 80% of Autosail, 90% of Waypoints, and 99% of Stealth Mode are useless ...

The 100% useful cards are those of Programming. Or you get them in the Barrel, or individual purchases when they go out, to 25 credits, or purchases in random packages.

Result: from this utility estimation, if we consider that the 100% usefulness per cost is the nominal price of the cards:

1. The actual profit of a random pack of 10 cards is 51.66 credits, 28.7% of its price. What you do not use is returned to 25% of its nominal value.

2. The usefulness of a Navigation package is 135 credits, 50% of its price (I do not think it's casual that exact 50%). And that's assuming that you use both all the Programmation cards you were looking for and that estimated 10% useful Waypoints that you buy in each package. What you do not use will be returned to 22% of its nominal value.
Post by iconPost by freudenoli | 2017-10-12 | 20:43:27
I agree with most of your assessment, but why do you think meteo is useless...do you always just copy paste the zezo route without looking at the VR weather at all?
I usually use most of my meteo cards...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-12 | 22:27:14
You can just look at the weather in another place. Yes, they have made it slightly different than official NOAA data, but the general picture is the same.

You can also see the wind direction 24 ahead with the in-game projected track at fixed twa - and that's what matters, not the pretty flowing winds (which are borrowed from https://www.windy.com/)
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-10-12 | 14:13:13

If you want, copy and paste and complete the ranking:

Credits awarded by Finish bonus:
____________________
Level 6 Regattas:

_________
Start race:

--- 5th - 775 credits

__________
Zanzibar:

-- 77th - 226 credits

__________
VOR Prologue:

-- 43th - 294 credits
- 134th - 174 credits


____________________
Level 5 Regattas:

__________
Mini Transat:

-- 80th - 445 credits
- 290th - 250 credits
- 362th - 226 credits

__________
Clipper Leg 2:

- 156th - 330 credits
Post by iconPost by WaterHammer | 2017-10-13 | 16:43:42
Anyone agree with me that it is very annoying that if you want to program several points during the night that each successive PR point cost you more and more cards? 1 card for the first point, two cards for the second point, 3 for the third point. Hence the PR programming of 4 points costed me 10 PR cards. Is this a bug? Or another trick?
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-13 | 17:06:44
I think that is the single most annoying "improvement" VR has come up with. Everything else I can live with, but that's something that might be a showstopper for me.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-13 | 18:13:17
+1
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-10-13 | 20:06:31
Agree and personnaly I don't see the value to have this rule, unless they wanted the players to connect more often, which would be useful for them if there were some advertisement or they want to maximize the number of connections. But, no ad (a significant improvement !!!!) and I don't really see which benefit they have to have more conection).
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-13 | 20:10:02
Programming (or the lack thereof) the sole purpose to spend $5 more during the race.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-10-13 | 20:25:42
Yes but they could have decided to charge more credit per programing cards. Why put a system that would favor the people that can connect very often? The people who will have to pay a lot are the ones who work during the day and do not want to wake up during the night and the people who travel...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-13 | 22:59:02
Because the growth is exponential this way.

They have actually reduced the basic price of the pro package - in the previous editions of similar races it was 10 EUR/leg, and there were attempts to charge 20 for 5-day races like Fastnet.

So they expect to get back at least 5 more EUR from every paying customer during the leg.

But that's actually none of my business. My business is reverse engineering the game and providing information, support and a forum to the players ;-)
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-10-15 | 22:54:19
Change

VR: "The amount per card can vary from one race to the next."

https://virtualregatta.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001511314-What-happens-to-the-cards-I-don-t-use-
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-10-16 | 03:24:36
The thing I hate most about the new version is that VR tries to control when I should log in. In the old version, as long as I logged in at least once per day, I could race. Sometimes logging in more frequently would improve my tactical results, but it was my choice.
Now unless I find a way to get a large quantity of programming cards, I have to plan to log in for each course change.
And I cannot buy a specific number of programming cards. Whichever way I try to get them, I will get lots of cards I don't want, and unless I buy them, I may not get any!

To get the most cards from the barrel I need to log in every 5 or 7 hours; times that are completely independent of what is happening in the race...

What is the logic of making it easy to use autosails, but hard/expensive to program course changes to make use of that? I know that if I set up 24hrs of course changes and make no changes, I will lose out to someone who updates their plan with each weather forecast, but I am unlikely to have set myself to sail in completely the wrong direction for several hours because I couldn't program a course change or get online at the right time.

And as many of you have said, I have no use for the Help or Stealth cards, and almost no use for the waypoint or weather cards.

So preference 1 is for an option to buy the right to unlimited 24hr programming (same as the previous version); next would be 1 card per course change independent of how many you program at one time; and the ability to buy just programming cards...

What is the best way to share this input with VR?
John
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-16 | 09:32:54
"So preference 1 is for an option to buy the right to unlimited 24hr programming (same as the previous version); next would be 1 card per course change independent of how many you program at one time; and the ability to buy just programming cards..."

Amen to that!
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-16 | 22:08:19
I'm not 100 % sure but it seems like if you pay for the options with a credit card, the connection is not secure. At least Chrome complained something in that direction. So I used PayPal.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-10-18 | 22:53:12
I found this 'official' answer on the VR facebook page regarding the new cards system.
'Actually, the card system we put in place with the new version is friendlier towards non-paying players, and this is how we wanted it to be. Think of how it used to be before the update: you had to pay in order to access all the options you can now access for free with cards.

Now you have access to these options thanks to cards. These cards can be obtained randomly, or purchased with credits, but these credits don't have to be purchased: you receive some when you start a race, but also when you cross the finish line. The game also redeems unused cards, which gives you even more credits.

Planning your strategy and the time when you use certain cards can help you save them for the most critical moments, and also save credits'
Post by iconPost by SnowPetrel | 2017-10-19 | 03:47:08
Bait & switch to create habit. At first plentiful, useful, and cheap (good resale value). Then scarce, costly to use, diminished resale. All this happened between Mini Transat and VOR Prologue. (See JohnT, above.) All that aside, it is a game, and if playing for a couple of weeks with all these friends costs as much as a decent Latte, I'm not complaining. VR, the pusherman, just needs to keep this economy reasonable.
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-19 | 08:37:29
I mostly agree. The problem I see is that this is becoming much more pay-to-win, the one who is prepared to pay more (or the stamina not to sleep and now work to hinder hobbies) has better chances of winning. I think that is very bad development from the perspective of the more competitive players.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-19 | 15:16:48
Now the barrel servers 3 visible cards or 4 secret every 8 hours (in the Mini).
Post by iconPost by SailorSam | 2017-10-19 | 18:24:32
I just bought 2 x 10 navigation packs - 540 credits. I got 17 waypoints and 3 programming cards. So if i put in 2 course changes I use up all my programming cards - 270 credits per course change. How does this even make sense?????? What sailor goes to sea with a lucky dip nav system?
Post by iconPost by enol74 | 2017-10-19 | 19:19:07
I have the same experience from the first leg. Many waypoints and very few programming cards bought by random system. I'm not NMS, I think 5€ per leg is still a reasonable price, but this is humiliating and it completely destroys the game and our nerves (especially in combination with '1+2+3=6 cards needed for pre-programmed 3-course change system'). As for me, I'll try to avoid random cards and get and save (from a barrel or by 15 credits buying) the specific cards only. But now I'm not sure if that 15 credit cards really changes after specific time period (I've already bought 1 autosail and now I'm waiting for the following stupid Help card to disappear :-).
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-19 | 19:34:08
They do change, but the price depends on the card. Navigation aids are more expensive. And random card once 3 times/day won't cut it - you'll get a programmer every other day on average. With the barrel serving 9/12 cards/day now it's about two programmers on average. But then you have to keep your schedule up not only to the forecast change which happens every 6 hours but also with the barrel. Which sucks.
Post by iconPost by enol74 | 2017-10-19 | 20:38:52
Thanks. Maybe we also can use the time between legs, with early registration for next leg we can collect useful cards in advance. Yes, the credits will be +/- the same, but we will have prepared that cards we really want at least for critical situations and course changes during the night (and not hundreds of unuseful cards like help, waypoints and stealth, purchased back for ridiculous price). Of course being online 'all the day' is still the goal a lot of people cannot faith with :-(.
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-20 | 09:04:56
I don't think you get the barrels before start.
Post by iconPost by enol74 | 2017-10-20 | 10:22:03
Not barrel, but single random cards. But the true is, that it still doesn't solve the problem, need of really a lot of programming cards from time to time :-(.
Post by iconPost by SailorSam | 2017-10-20 | 17:12:00
The reply to my post above. At least they replied.

Jessica (Virtual Regatta Offshore)
Oct 20, 15:59 CEST

Hello,

Thank you for your message.

With a bit of practice you can achieve similar results using way points instead of programming cards. Unfortunately, you can't use the way points and programming at the same time, but many players find way points can be much more accurate.

We appreciate your feedback in regards to this and hope you'll continue to enjoy the game.

If you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Best regards,
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-20 | 20:02:07
In their typical style ... someone should make them sail optimum TWA for 12 hours with "a little bit of practice"
Post by iconPost by Supannee | 2017-10-20 | 20:32:49
La carte "voiles auto" n'est valable que 12h maintenant ?
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-20 | 20:38:57
Oui, seulement 12 heures. :/
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