Something seems to go wrong in the classification of the leg 7!
Post by iconPost by vaysehunde | 2018-03-21 | 23:46:06

I introduce myself.
My name in the game is VaySehunde-Charlie.

I see that, for example, "Your Mom SA" is in the position 3,647, although it is clearly in front of my boat, which appears in the position 1,309 (and going down).

In addition, just behind "Your Mom SA" (sorry for using you as an example), there are boats that have a better position, although they are clearly behind.

It can also be checked through the chrome extension.

This happens with several nearby players:
Tame bird
Big Bird ....

Have I only noticed, or is it a bug in my browser?

I have closed it several times, but the error persists.

commenticon 27 Comments
Post by iconPost by vaysehunde | 2018-03-21 | 23:47:35
Now my position has become 4,723, in just 2 minutes.
Post by iconPost by Quikiwi | 2018-03-21 | 23:55:41
Yep, just lost 3,570 places in 2 minutes and DTF went out 71.4nm. I presume it must be some sort of adjustment to DTF calculation by VR. But it makes planning and comparisons with competitors difficult.
Post by iconPost by Stormbringer | 2018-03-22 | 00:07:17
I think there may be intermediate gates that are invisible on the user interface that VR uses to keep progress relative, similar to the gates in the JVT. It should rectify itself as the fleet advances, you didn't lose any ground.

Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-03-22 | 00:30:40
VR is going bazinga again
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-03-22 | 00:42:34
it's for sure your position regarding an intermediate invisible beacon sensor. last leg i went from 5th to 20.000 plus in 1 sec.

It will take some hours to update.

However don't forget the South factor... Earth is round and a chart is a projection.

The more Southern you are, the shorter the circles are from west to east and vice versa are. And also the closer you are to "the other side of the world".

Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-22 | 02:21:25
One thing you learn after doing a lot of races is to never care much at all about your ranking before the finish line. All you get from caring about that is angst. ;-)
Post by iconPost by the-love-boat | 2018-03-22 | 07:16:03
Yep. Headed north out of Auckland and tacked south in 39,000th place. Rounded East Cape in 144th. The leader for the first few hours was the guy who headed due south into the Firth of Thames (which is a nautical cul-de-sac). If you are in the leading bunch this early in the leg you are almost certainly in the wrong place for the next move.
Post by iconPost by DonH | 2018-03-22 | 10:11:07
Last night I was 17 miles behind a preceding yacht but further south in stronger winds doing about 0.5kts faster. This morning (8hrs later) I am nearly 90 miles behind the same yacht with similar wind strength doing the same speed. We both had the same wind angle, 140P, throughout the night. The distances are taken off the dispaly NOT the rankings! Any explanation?? Is this a server glitch as I can't see how this could happen especially with such a marked difference. Has anyone else experienced similar problems?
Post by iconPost by Alex Wind | 2018-03-22 | 11:43:02
I have seen many strange things also since yesterday.
For example I have seen some boats following a way more south than mine for several days. And yesterday I have seen the same boat just next to me without changing the TWA or the HDG. Very very strange..
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-03-23 | 00:48:58
Did you noticed there was a ridge catching us and that everything changed even with boats nearby?. The angles changed started changing to boats behind...that's what happened.
Post by iconPost by DonH | 2018-03-22 | 13:14:37
Just been back onto VR and when I first opened it the predicted 24hr dotted line showed initially back whence I had come from for about 3 hrs before tapping on the yacht to have it corrected. This may be the problem but how to permanently correct it, I know not. It is very frustrating when enjoying the game and trying hard to keep up with the more experienced players and then to experience this glitch which appears to be robbing me of miles I should have successfully sailed.

I guess it's just 'heads down and get on with it'!
Post by iconPost by Luiz | 2018-03-22 | 14:16:17
Hello Charlie,

As "Yourmom" said, ranking in VR is really tricky to understand sometimes. The goal remain to stay focused on your planned route, not caring so much on current position.
Even so, yesterday I did an experiment to check it, and in my case at least the ranking made sense. I already had done this in the same leg in 14/15 VOR edition, after realize that my 50nm "advantage" was really a tie, and the guys on south crossed the Horn with better wind and angle (and finally it was the winning route of that leg). Lesson learned for me, let's go:
It´s an illusion. A "gift" for the Mercator Projected VR game map.
Assuming that there is an internal game mark at Cape Horn to calculate the ranking (make more sense than Itajai, whose direct line to finish crosses the continent), open the Google Earth, plot your position and of other boat ahead (or behind) you, whose ranking is apparently discrepant. Then draw a line connecting these two marks to the Horn and check the distance. In my case, the yesterday leader was cleary "behind" me, on south, but the lines showed that he was 4 miles ahead.
The final test is to rotate the map, leaving the drawn lines connecting the boats with Horn centered on the globe as if they were the Equator line and checking the marks (remember to rotate the globe horizontally to reach the marks). The boat with the highest ranking will be ahead. When you turn the globe to simulate the "Mercator projection" (as shown in the game), the positions will be inverted.

Best Regards,

Luiz @ Mizaza 1
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-22 | 14:30:05
Some thoughts on the points that have come up here...

- Rankings. Per my earlier comment... Just ignore them until the finish. Sometimes weird invisible gates will cause temporary oddities like what we saw yesterday. Other times, the absence of invisible gates where they should be will cause other oddities like the early "leaders" going into the Firth of Thames. Rankings have nothing to do with ETA. They only relate to DTF based on an invisible set of marks and gates that doesn't always make sense. Just try to get to the finish as fast as you can, and let the Rankings sort themselves out when you get there. Instead, keep tabs on boats you consider to be rivals of comparable ability to your own, and see how you're doing against them along whatever strategic line of progression you personally think to be best.

- Different boatspeeds for the same boats with the same sails in the same wind with the same TWA. VR has answered in their FAQ, but people rarely look at the FAQ. When you look at other boats, you aren't seeing their current data. If they look at their own boat, they'll see something different from what you see. It's really annoying... I get pinged a couple times a week in the game by people asking me if I'm cheating, or how I'm going faster than them, etc. Here's the FAQ:

- Boat's course and/or projection line looking wrong when you first open the game. PARTICULARLY with a slow or cellular connection. Don't touch it immediately. This often just means the game hasn't finished importing all of its data to your device yet. Usually, if I see this and give it 5-10 seconds, I discover that the data import finishes and the boat's course and projection line suddenly correct themselves to what they should have been. It can definitely cause a panic attack, though. Anyway... if you touch it before it updates, that may cause it to view whatever was being shown when you touched it as a desired course change, so it's important to resist the panic.

- With that said... There are scenarios where the scheduler can get confused and do stuff you didn't ask it to do (for example, if you make a bunch of adjustments and then stay logged in to watch it complete a tack, sometimes it will tack back a couple minutes later... This happened to me four times in the last Clipper leg). And sometimes people accidentally set scheduled course changes incorrectly, and think it's a system bug because they didn't realize what they did, and since it doesn't show your scheduler history (unless you're using the Chrome Dashboard), it's easy to think the system screwed up when it was really your own mistake. Anyway... my point is that if you've given it enough time to be confident that the weird course isn't just an internet lag, then DonH's "heads down and get on with it" is the best move.

- Finally, Alex Wind's observation. I think Toppen and I discussed the same thing yesterday. He and I were both sailing TWA 140 for at least 24 hours straight. But for some reason, he moved from a bit North of me to a bit South of me. Part of this could be from him being 1-2 miles ahead, and therefore maybe in a slightly different wind angle. But when I asked him about it, he said I was actually sailing 139.7. He said the Dashboard was confirming him at 140.0 and me at 139.7. I don't use the Dashboard (it seems like a great tool, but I'd over-analyze things if I had that much data), so I'm not sure. I don't know how it's possible for me to have been sailing 139.7. Maybe someone with the Dashboard can do some testing to figure it out.... My guess is that I was sailing a fixed compass course, and then turned on the lock... And it locked in at 139.7 because that was the precise TWA angle based on the precise wind angle when I hit the lock. Whereas if I had used the scheduler to set it to 140, or maybe if I had set the lock and then changed my course manually to 141 and back to 140, or something like that, maybe it would have given my precisely TWA 140. This is all guesswork, though. I'm a little baffled on this one at the moment. But... the bottom line is that if it's true that a boat can be sailing a TWA angle with a decimal, and that different boats can be sailing different decimals, rounded off to the same whole number, then that would explain what I saw and what Alex Wind saw. You'd only notice it when sailing for a long time at a fixed TWA, though.

On that last point, I've also noticed when occasionally trying to sail a fixed compass course of 0, 90, 180, or 270 that the latitude or longitude that I'd ordinarily expect to remain constant until I change course doesn't always do so. So I think there's a similar issue with fixed compass courses where you can actually be sailing 0.3 degrees instead of 0.0. But I similarly don't know how it happens or how to avoid it.

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-22 | 14:41:21
The game has some weird logic and the steering angles are somehow random. It's not about switching the TWA lock on/off.

It feels like the interface just splits the residual error between the numbers so the integers add up to 360, and does it in some stupid and buggy way.

Not sure if using the programmer makes difference. Have to check.

Edit: The programmer just sets fractional numbers in the program. Just tried to set TWA 140 and then heading . Result:

Actions: TWA=-139.8 @ 3/22/2018, 15:01:00 UTC;
Actions: HDG=79.9 @ 3/22/2018, 15:00:00 UTC;

It looks weird. Like the fixed heading will actually produce integer TWA and vice versa. Maybe someone has swapped an if() condition somewhere.

Post by iconPost by mak08 | 2018-03-22 | 15:46:18
If you switch TWA on or off manually, you're indeed locked into the fractional angle that happens to be your current TWA (when switching TWA on) or heading (when switching it off). The other value drifts as the TWD changes.
This seems quite logical - it avoids jumps in the boat heading if you switch TWA on or off.

One might expect that TWA is set to an integer value if you change the TWA while TWA is switched on. Oddly though, this is not the case. The heading dial always increments or decrements TWA or heading by an integer value.

Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-03-22 | 16:17:29
benefit is that most boats sail at slightly different angles and some spread occurs. Otherwise everyone would sail out at exactly TWA140 and be exactly at the same place after a week or so, except for some gybe timings.
Would be nice though to adjust TWA and HDG by the 0.1 degree.

Now you have to swith HDG on, wait for the wind to turn a bit and than TWA back on, to shift some decimals. And even than it is uncontrolled where it goes to.
Post by iconPost by Toppen | 2018-03-22 | 16:18:45
The wind direction is with one decimal but the interface does not. So setting a course for example to twa140 may give you an exact course of 139.5 to 140.4, the Dashboard will show you what you got. Turning the auto TWA off for a while will change the exact course as the wind direction changes and when setting auto TWA = on you will get a new exact (1 decimal) course.
When you set a programming, let's say twa140 in the interface, it will again be in the span of 139.5-140.4. And also again - the Dashboard will show the exact twa.
The wind speed comes with 2 decimals but the interface shows it with only one.
The boat speed comes with 2 decimals but the interface shows it with only one.

The interface should of course show us the samt number of decimals (wind direction, wind speed, boat speed) as the game uses but as we all know that is not so important for the fantastic (irony...) game provider Virtual Regatta...
Without zezo, polars from toxcct and the Dashboard there would be no Virtual Regatta...
// Toppen
Post by iconPost by Avontuur | 2018-03-22 | 18:32:34
Yesterday I tried to set the course to the decimal by setting a waypoint, then delete it and change to TWA. after a few trials you get the exact course you want.
I do not know if it is needed to do though. But it can be done :)

Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-03-22 | 21:02:13
yeah, that works. but for no money sailors there are no unlimited waypoints to finetune HDG or TWA :(
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-22 | 21:28:52
Switching back and forth several times between TWA140 and 139 gave me a speed increase of 0,11nm. Actual TWA was 140.2 and 139.5. All thanks to the brilliant dashboard.
Post by iconPost by occupywallstreet | 2018-03-22 | 23:35:07
This might sound a bit strange, but I come from Finland and I feel there is so many dedicated and enthusiastic players (or virtual sailors for what ever reason) that I came up with a idea to present an opportunity for one of Finnish game company to develop this Virtual Sailing. This present company clearly ignores the things this site issues. This could end up challenging the real world navigators, who believe they are Gods in predicting how the complex atmosphere is behaving.
Would it be possible to create a team that will develop a satisfactory game for us and at same time develop an opportunity for a game company to make money. I know that sailing is a niche world for many, but it might be very interesting for many people that are fed up with killing and destroying things. I do not know what happens in the future, but what we are actually is doing is something with the one and only GLOBE. These kind of things with concern of our space shuttle Earth must and will grow in the future, if we have any hopes to continue to carry on with the life in here.
Post by iconPost by the-love-boat | 2018-03-23 | 03:14:25
Sounds like a good idea but I imagine Volvo Ocean Race is concerned about money. Many of the bugs, errors, and limitations we encounter with the game are because of a lack of resourcing from the company that develops the game. This lack of resource is usually because the client, in this case VOR, chose a low priced bid to keep costs down.
Post by iconPost by Toppen | 2018-03-23 | 18:49:42
I'm really sorry but this wasn't the smartest post i have read about VR... but i assume you are a new VR customer... in a year or so you will have changed your opinion/view of VR...
The Volvo/VOR organization has nothing to do with the VR dev team or VR pricing/financing.
Virtual Regatta as a company/organization is a total disaster (mgmt, comms, dev team etc.) and they are desperate about ways to increase revenue. Most of the bugs we encounter has already been solved in the previous version of the game but they tend to come back, or at least 95% of them, with new releases - every time. Maybe it's a strateg to implement 95% of the old bugs in a new version and then correct them and have all the customers think VR is a great company... i've been within the IT industry for over 30 years and i have never seen such amateurs...
// Toppen (about 3 months from leaving VR "for good")

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-23 | 20:39:58
And then the entire thing is the other way around. It's not VOR hiring VR to do the race, it's VR paying money to VOR for the intellectual property and the advertising.

so, @occupywallstreet the problem is not hiring a competent team. It's about investment of few millions and a proper marketing plan, connections in the sailing circles, good layers and all the corporate shit.

I don't say it can't be done, or that it can't be done better than it currently is. Just saying that it's a bit more complicated than it seems at a first glance. Contact me off-list if you need additional information.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-23 | 21:07:10
Also, presumably there would be copyright infringement lawsuits if a new product wasn't demonstrably different (aside from being less buggy)
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-23 | 21:31:40
One of the patents has expired, but you never know.
Post by iconPost by occupywallstreet | 2018-03-23 | 02:49:43

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